Chris Kelly and Sarah Schneider have created something truly special with The Other Two.
The show, which just finished its second season on HBO Max, expertly blends pop culture satire with the drama of the lovable yet dysfunctional Dubek family. It's one of the sharpest, funniest comedies of recent years and was recently renewed for a third season.
I spoke to Kelly and Schneider over Zoom to ask them about the highlights of writing and shooting Season 2, Alessia Cara, and what the future holds for Brooke (Heléne Yorke) and Cary (Drew Tarver).
The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.
What were some of your favorite moments from Season 2, either from a writing perspective or a filming one?
SS: There was one experience that we had on set: We'd been down for a year [due to COVID] and when we came back we had to shoot the party scene in episode 9, when Cary goes to the underwear party. Obviously, everyone was tested and we did this big dance number.
We were playing Robyn, because for these scenes you play a song just to give a vibe. Then we yelled cut, but the song kept playing. Then the crew started dancing, and we all started dancing. It was a very nice moment of human connectivity after so, so many months of not seeing people and not making anything. That was a really lovely, beautiful moment that I will always remember.
CK: It's just very fulfilling that it's actually out there because, like Sarah was saying, it did take a very long time. With Season 2, the runtime of the episodes is a little longer, so we got to dig into some of the other characters more. I really liked getting to flip the script and follow Chase (Case Walker) and Pat (Molly Shannon) in the finale and see a little bit more of Pat and Streeter’s (Ken Marino) personal relationship.
The dynamic shifts this season: Brooke and Cary find more success, and in the finale you frame Pat and Chase more as "the other two." What was it like charting these different character journeys?
CK: We just kind of decided right away. Those are the first conversations you have: dramatically, what do you want every character to go through?
We knew early on that we didn't want to repeat ourselves. We didn't want Season 2 to just be like, “Their mom is famous, and they're still losers.” Now their mom's famous, but what do they do to change the status quo? We liked early on that they were going to get a little taste of success, or whatever that even means for themselves. Naturally, from there it flowed into what would happen if the two of them start to get happier and more successful.
At the end of episode 9, Cary says, “It's so nice that all four of us are doing well.” We like the idea that they're thinking so much of themselves that they wouldn't realize what their mom and brother were going through.
“OK, well, we need him in as many episodes as possible.”
One of the other characters you dug into more was Lance (Josh Segarra), who really comes into his own this season. What made you want to delve deeper into his journey?
SS: People always make comments that Lance is dumb, but I think he is our most morally sound, intuitive, thoughtful character on the show. He knows Brooke better than she even knows herself. There's more to him than meets the eye, which is why we keep coming back to him. It feels like there's more and more to discover within that character.
CK: The reason we did this is Josh Segarra. He's such a good actor. He's so talented and funny. As we were cracking Season 2, we would literally just say, “OK, well, we need him in as many episodes as possible.”
We also like the idea that these two people who were together for so long were holding each other back. They were sort of lethargic together and not following their dreams. Then, they separated and that allowed them to get their shit together. So what would happen if they came back together at a different point in their life?
He's so great. And I want his fashion line to be a reality.
CK: Jill Bream, our costume designer, is incredible. She had to be a designer herself, but be in character designing as Lance, and she did such amazing work.
This season does a great job combining satire, family drama, and even some horror elements. How did you strike a balance between genres and still make sure the character came through?
SS: That was something that we cared a lot about and put a lot of attention to in the scripts, but I also will give a lot of credit to our actors, specifically Drew Tarver and Heléne Yorke. They are so good at playing arch then also somehow grounding the characters. We felt confident being able to put Cary into a full Sleeping With the Enemy horror parody because we knew Drew would be able to ground that story. It’s the same with Brooke in episode 8. She’s trying to solve a truly cuckoo mystery within her life, and we just knew Heléne would be able to make that crazy story work.
"We wanted to take big swings."
CK: We basically want to go stupid as we can or as big as we can, or as funny or absurd as we can and try different things, as long as we can still land the plane at the end of the episode. We can do a horror genre parody as long as it's in service of the characters.
We don't want to just do weird cuckoo things for the sake of doing it. We want it to be in service of a more dramatic idea, without it being too message-y or too melodramatic. And because of our DPs and our editors, we had the ability to do some weird things and play with genre. We just didn’t want the show to get stale. We wanted to take big swings.
Can you walk me through the Alessia Cara running gag and cameo that closed out the season?
SS: We were trying to pinpoint the exact right level of legitimate singer that you would buy would go to Brooke’s equivalent in the real world. We thought Alessia was perfect, and she was so game to play that.
CK: We shot that scene with her in the sauna first, to make sure that we had her, because then Brooke has to say her name so many times throughout the season. Alessia was great and so funny and such a good actor.
In episode 1, Brooke says that she's trying to get Alessia Cara to let her represent her, and it's played as a throwaway joke. We start the season with Brooke in manager drag. She doesn't even know what being a manager is, and then by the end of the season we’re legitimizing her. She actually has become the thing that she always said she was.
A lot of this season's jokes, like the "I'm his son, I'm straight, and I'm from Kansas" line have found a second life online. What's it been like to watch the show's reception and see how much it resonates with people?
SS: For me, my personal experience was that people from all walks of my life reached out in very nice ways, including a lot of people who I hadn't heard from in many years, or people I collaborated with a decade ago. That is so cool because the show not only brought us back together, but it's reaching more people. That was what we were so excited about by being on HBO Max, which has this platform built in.
CK: It's also fulfilling because, yeah, a lot of the episodes are stupid and we do fun genre stuff, but they're usually rooted in some sort of drama. So even though the “I'm his son, I'm straight, and I'm from Kansas” thing is a funny, madcap episode, it is about something, it's about about Cary’s struggle with his sexuality. A lot of these stories are super meaningful and came from the room — almost every story in the show is based on someone's life, or fear, or anxiety. So it is very fulfilling when people relate to it.
Speaking of drama, the finale features an extended argument between the Dubek family in Pat's hospital room. How did you approach writing such a pivotal moment?
SS: When we were writing it, we knew all the pieces. We knew these two had this gripe with each other, we knew we wanted Chase to say “fuck you” to Brooke. Then, we had to just figure out in what order they flowed through the scene correctly.
We mostly just wanted to make sure that everyone has a point of view in that fight. Everyone has a place that they're coming from, and no one is hard wrong. It’s satisfying to watch our characters just hash it out in such an honest and pure way. They each have something valuable to say and teach their family about themselves and their experience.
In the finale's ending tag, we see Curtis (Brandon Scott Jones) replacing Cary as the host of "The Gay Minute" and congratulating him on his upcoming film Night Nurse, which unluckily starts shooting on March 13, 2020. When did you decide to add this tag, and does this mean that Season 3 will tackle COVID?
CK: [Laughs] We don't want anyone to think that that means Season 3 is about COVID. Our show should not be the one that is getting in the trenches dealing in commentary about the pandemic.
“Can’t Cary have one goddamn thing?”
We had written the whole season before COVID. The ending tag was the only thing that we changed or added. We kind of hemmed and hawed about it, and we really weren't sure because it's like, “Can’t Cary have one goddamn thing?” But our show exists in reality, as stupid as it can be at times. We really do like to satirize and parody pop culture and the entertainment industry, and it feels like everything about that has changed because of the pandemic. The way people audition, the way people work, the way people date, the way society functions. If we didn't acknowledge that, our show would move farther and farther away from reality in a way that would start to get stressful.
SS: In a larger sense we liked that we would see Curtis get his next step up in his career. We really liked tagging the season with Cary moving on and in turn bringing his friend up with him. We liked that as a button on their friendship this season.
What can we expect from Season 3? Is there anything you're excited to explore moving forward?
SS: I'm excited to explore Brooke and Lance's relationship. We left them in a really interesting place. It doesn't feel for sure to me that they'll go a certain direction, but I know that they'll continue to have some sort of relationship within the show. "I'm excited to see what our brains decide to do" is a weird thing to say, but I am really excited to see what we'll do.
CK: We used to only follow Cary and Brooke and then in the finale, we follow Chase and Pat; I'm curious if that would change the way we write the show or our focus.
The real answer is no, we don't know anything. Tell us if you have ideas.
SS: Hypothetically, what would you want?
[Laughs] That’s a lot of pressure. I think I'd want to see Night Nurse.
CK: Yeah, we don't want to make a Season 3. We just want to earnestly make Night Nurse.
I will watch it opening weekend.
CK: We will release all of Season 3, and then simultaneously A24 will release Night Nurse.
The Other Two is now streaming on HBO Max.
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